What is your opinion of George Lucas? For anyone who grew up on the original Star Wars films, either in the theater or on video, that can be a tricky question to answer. Many sci-fi fans idolized Lucas for years ... until he started making his long-awaited prequel trilogy, at which point those fans became disillusioned and, in some cases, angry. Thus began the great cognitive dissonance of Star Wars fandom: the loving of George for the original trilogy and the disappointment with him for the prequels.

Filmmaker Alexandre Philippe, a Star Wars fan himself, has decided to explore this love/hate relationship between Lucas and his fans as well as what might be going on inside the head of Lucas, a man who once fought the machine but was eventually sucked into it -- or perhaps became a machine himself. I recently spoke with Alexandre about his upcoming documentary, The People vs. George Lucas. Here is what he had to say:

(You can also listen to the audio of this interview, divided into three parts, on YouTube.)

Sci-Fi Block: Can you start off by giving us a quick overview of what The People vs. George Lucas is about?

Alexandre Philippe: Well, the film really is a cultural examination of the conflicted dynamic between George Lucas and his fans over the past three decades.

SFB: Do you find that the prequel trilogy and the altering of the original films is the sole source of this conflict, or do you think there are other problems that fans have with George Lucas?

Philippe: Well, I think there are a number of things. And [laughs], you know, if you start looking historically, I think really the Special Editions is where it all sort of came to a head. Not only the fact that George Lucas altered his films -- a lot of directors do this, of course, nowadays and come up with their own special editions -- but it is specifically George Lucas’s refusal to restore and release the original theatrical cuts of his films that has alienated a lot of fans who feel entitled, in a sense, that these movies also belong to them. And there’s a series of events – and that’s obviously what we explore in the film – that have made this, I would say, a dysfunctional relationship, and the way I look at this film is it’s a love story, but it’s a dysfunctional love story. There’s certainly a great amount of love the fans have. They adore the man. But there’s a lot of frustration, a lot of conflicted feelings, and that’s what we’ve attempted to explore in this film.

SFB: The Special Editions, as you say, were kind of the starting point of all this, as far as fans feeling that Lucas was tampering with something that, in a way, belonged to them. Do you think the prequel trilogy, which was disappointing for most fans, also plays into this idea of Lucas messing up something that fans feel is theirs?

Philippe: Oh, absolutely, and I think it goes back to this notion of ownership. You know, Star Wars fans feel [laughs], very much that this is their story, this is their mythos, you know. This is the one story that really defines, to a certain extent, their childhood. So, it kind of starts there. You have to understand the relationship the fans have with this franchise to understand how they feel the way they feel right now. And, so, when you start adding the prequel trilogy to the Special Editions, then there’s this feeling that George came back sixteen years after [the fans] had started to create all these stories in their minds about what Darth Vader might have been, what the Clone Wars might have been about -- and of course there’s no way George could have met those expectations, really. So, the fans were just -- the original generation were massively, massively disappointed by what George gave them. And, it’s interesting because you also have this generational conflict. You know, I think certainly the kids, the younger generation, seem to really enjoy the prequels a great deal. So I think you’re really talking specifically about a generation of fans and their reaction to these new movies.

SFB: That’s interesting, and I was gonna ask you about the children being fans of the prequel trilogy and The Clone Wars. Do you think that Lucas designed them that way so that they would appeal to the younger crowd, as a lot of people say, or do you think he just sort of messed up, and it turns out that the kids are the ones who like this stuff?

Philippe: Well, I think there’s no question that these films were made, to a large extent, for a new generation. And, once again, I think that’s yet another element that gets his original fans angry. It’s this notion of How dare you do this, George? You know? We made you. We followed you from day one. And that’s kinda of the reasoning that’s going on behind this. But, I mean, if you wanna look at this objectively, how could George not have done this for a new generation? That was the appeal of this, is that, again, you’re showing up sixteen years later, there’s a whole new generation waiting to see those movies. You have to kind of make it current and update it for a new time. So, the very tricky thing about this is that ultimately nobody’s to blame, really, but it’s just a very, very peculiar dynamic and relationship in popular culture.

SFB: Obviously there are a lot of fans that are just supportive of George Lucas no matter what he does. Do you find that the overall majority of Star Wars fans are the more conflicted love/hate fans, or do you think there is a strong presence on the pure fanboy fan side?

Philippe: Well, you know, it’s been interesting. We’ve been working on this project for just about three years now, very, very intensely. I mean, we’ve traveled the world, you know. We’ve talked to thousands of people, whether via interview or via email. But, I’ll tell you one thing: In terms of my generation -- I’m thirty-five, so my generation I consider really when you were anywhere around five to ten years old when Star Wars originally came out in the theaters -- I’ve yet to find [laughs] a single person from my generation who doesn’t have that conflicted relationship with George Lucas. It’s pretty amazing. And it doesn’t matter where you go around the world. You know, the love, of course, is there. I mean, everybody recognizes how impactful Star Wars has been. Nobody denies that, but when you start talking about George Lucas, there is the love and the frustration, and sometimes you hear even the hate. It’s a very, very powerful feeling, and the new generation for the most part doesn’t really get that. They don’t understand how we can feel so passionately, and of course there’s a lot of people out there who say, “These are just movies,” and that’s where it becomes really interesting as a debate: Is Star Wars just a movie, or is it more than just a movie; is it our cultural heritage? And that’s another topic that we very much explore in the film because that’s a very, very tricky question to answer.

What'd you say about my man George?

SFB: Speaking to your movie now, can you give us an example of some of the extremes that you’ve witnessed people take their anger or their hatred with George?

Philippe: Oh, you know, there’s many. But, I would say first [laughs] -- before I get into the anger I wanna talk about the passion because this is what we call a participatory documentary, in the sense that on top of our own interviews and filming we’ve accepted submissions from around the world. And, the fans have given us hundreds of hours of amazing footage and have gone above-and-beyond, really, to make this really a special film. They’ve submitted, you know, staged some amazing puppet rants, or clay-mation, 3-D animation, Star Wars grindhouse, you name it. They’ve done some really amazing things. So, the passion, the desire to express themselves, is just frankly astounding.

In terms of hate, I’ll give you one example among many: a guy who actually is just really phenomenally entertaining -- and he’s in the film -- who submitted I think it’s about a seven-hour rant--

SFB: Wow.

Philippe: -- you know, like a webcam rant, where he essentially deconstructed literally beat-by-beat not only all the Star Wars movies but The Clone Wars as well, with some action figure recreations and reenactments. I mean, just absolutely amazing, amazing stuff.

SFB: Now, how much input were you able to get from people -- I know you had a little trouble with this -- how much input were you able to get from people who actually have ties with George Lucas?

Philippe: Well, we have interviewed a number of people who’ve worked with him. It’s very tricky because of obviously the nature of our film, the title of our film, to get people who currently have strong ties with him to participate. And, on some level I understand it, but it is of course one certainly very frustrating part of the process, a difficult part of the process, but it really forced us to dig deeper and to try to find our own evidence in a number of different ways. But, I think ultimately -- and this has been the earlier reaction from festival directors watching the film and being really enthusiastic about it -- is that people will find that it’s a very balanced debate. You know, we’ve really had to take a step back. I did not want to approach this film from the perspective of a fanboy. As much as I can be a fanboy, this would have been the lethal mistake, and so I really wanted to look at this topic from the standpoint of a documentary filmmaker and to look at both sides of the story as objectively as possible.

So, I think ultimately it’s a very balanced, very factual account, and, you know, if George gets to see the film, I hope he’ll like it. I know its not -- we didn’t spare anybody. It’s very much an uncensored debate, and that’s, again, what I felt my job was as a documentarian.

SFB: George Lucas isn’t exactly reclusive, but he’s one of those figures you’re not often hearing about in the news, even really within the sphere of sci-fi news. He doesn’t frequently put himself out there for interviews and things like that. Can you paint us a picture of George Lucas’s personality based on your experience of interviewing people who have worked with him?

Philippe: Well, the thing is, I feel -- that’s what I love so much about George, is that the more you learn about him the less you know. He’s a very elusive guy. To give you an example, one of the most special interviews we’ve had was with Dale Pollock, who of course was his biographer and wrote the book Skywalking. We interviewed Dale at his home in North Carolina for four and a half hours, and he’s just a wealth of knowledge on George and his motivations, but ultimately even Dale could only speculate to a certain extent. You know, you can look at his life and you can look at some of the things that motivated him -- that may have motivated him. You look at his early interviews. For instance, there was a very early 1971 interview that was leaked on the web not too long ago, kind of prior to THX [1138], which was very, very interesting because you’re seeing a young George Lucas talking about his frustration with the studios having control over his work and yearning to actually control his work. I mean, you’re seeing the seeds; you’re seeing events in his life that may explain why he’s behaving the way he’s behaving, but ultimately I think he’s a great mystery.

One of the ways I like to look at this is he’s very much like a Citizen Kane character, and that’s kind of the way that I look at The People vs. George Lucas: is that ultimately you have all of these elements, and you put them together, and you form your own idea of George Lucas the man, but can you say specifically why he is the way he is? No, absolutely not. But, that’s the beauty of it. And, I think for all of us as human beings, there is a mystery there, but George is particularly mysterious, I think.

SFB: Citizen Lucas. That could be your next project, right?

Philippe: Citizen Lucas [laughs (probably out of sympathy)]. Yes, absolutely, that would be a great one.

Who knew stormtroopers were so fragile?

SFB: I know you weren’t able to talk with Lucas for your film. Did you even try contacting him, or did you kind of just figure that would be a lost cause?

Philippe: Oh, no, no, no, we’ll always try something. That’s the role of a documentary filmmaker. So, yes, absolutely. We contacted them very early in the process. In fact, when we launched our website, they were the first people that we contacted, and we wanted to be very open about the project and tell them that it was happening and of course invited them to participate. Also, we invited them again once the first trailer was released. And, you know, they were actually very nice to us, very polite, and they acknowledged, essentially, our rights to make this film, but they declined to participate. They didn’t feel that it was appropriate. And, you know, to tell you the truth I kind of feel now in retrospect that it’s probably a good thing because I think if Lucas had participated, perhaps we may have been swayed or tempted to be a little more subjective on his side possibly, but I think the fact that they didn’t participate ensured that we provided a very, very balanced account of him.

SFB: Would you classify Lucas as an artist or a businessman?

Philippe: Ahhh, well, [laughs] that’s the big question isn’t it? And I think that’s yet another sort of layer of added to the frustration from the fans. You have to look at it this way, too: George Lucas, of course, is an artist, and he’s made some amazing, amazing movies, but he was also -- he was one of us. He was this kind of scruffy nerfherder, as the fans like to put it, you know? He was the guy who went against the system and just blew up the Death Star of Hollywood from the inside and changed everything. He was a revolutionary. And the irony that he became this businessman, that he became this machine that the fans can no longer connect with on the same level, again, it’s that added layer of frustration.

Nowadays I think there’s no question that George Lucas is much more of a businessman than he is an artist, than he is a filmmaker. I mean you could certainly argue that he became trapped by Star Wars, that Star Wars took him off his path. Francis Ford Coppola talks about this, that no matter how successful Star Wars has been, no matter how many billions of dollars it brought [Lucas], we’ve only been able to experience just about ten percent of what George Lucas is capable as a filmmaker. I mean, when you hear Francis Ford Coppola saying this, it sort of gives you the chills. I mean it’s very, very -- it’s very sad to hear this. But, you know, the other part of the equation is that nobody can know what it’s like to be in George’s shoes, to have that kind of a success. I mean, how can you not take advantage of it? How can you not want to pursue that path of Star Wars? It’s just really unfortunate at this stage of the game because there’s no question that George has the ability to do whatever he wants. He has the resources, and he has expressed the desire to make other movies, to make the kind of experimental films that he used to make, but he’s just not doing it. And I think that the fans are very disappointed because I think that a lot of them would like to see him breaking away from Star Wars and doing something completely new.

SFB: I think I can make a pretty safe assumption here, but just for the record, are you a Star Wars fan?

Philippe: [Laughs] Oh yeah.

I mean, I think it would be very difficult to make a film like [The People vs. George Lucas] and to really live, I mean live George Lucas fifteen hours a day seven days a week, for three solid years without being a fan. I do have a particular relationship with this project. As a documentary filmmaker I always sort of immerse myself in anything that I do. So, even if I’m not a fan in the first place, I find a way to become a fan, I find a way to become really interested in the topic.

But this was definitely something that started as a passion when I was a kid. I was raised in Switzerland and in Geneva, and my first memory, actually, of Star Wars on the big screen was Empire Strikes Back, but I had all the toys even prior to that. And, I can’t tell you what my first memory of Star Wars is, but I do remember very distinctly the “Luke, I am your Father” moment in the theater in Geneva, and I remember standing up in the theater and looking at my mom, just wondering, What the Hell? I mean, it was just kind of devastating, and I‘ve talked to so many people from my generation who’ve had the same moment, literally, of being transformed by watching those films, and then you’re hooked for the rest of your life. It’s very, very interesting how effective these movies were, and I hope that George realizes -- without a bit of irony or cynicism at all because I know his fans must drive him crazy -- but I hope he realizes how profoundly he has affected our generation, and what an amazingly beautiful thing that is.

Those Mos Eisley guys are going down at the next Battle of the Bands.

SFB: Your film premieres next month at the South by Southwest film festival. Any idea when more of us are gonna get to see it?

Philippe: Yes I do, but unfortunately I can’t tell you right now. You know, it’s just one of those situations where we’ve been invited by a number of festivals. Unfortunately it's tricky for us because we have to limit ourselves to a certain amount of festivals prior to sales and distribution, as we want this to be a theatrically viable film. So, we’ve committed to three additional, really substantial film festivals. That’s all I can tell you right now. We’ve unfortunately had to turn down a number of offers. We’re probably gonna commit to a few more. But right now we’re kind of trying to stick to the big ones and kind of strategize accordingly. But, certainly we wanna make sure that this is a film that fans everywhere will eventually get a chance to see. The fans have a lot of passion all around the world, so we’re working very hard to make this happen. It just has to be done under the right circumstances.

SFB: Alright, is there anything else you’d like to say about your movie?

Philippe: You know, I think that’s it. I just really wanna encourage people to go to our website, PeopleVsGeorge.com, and of course join our mailing list if they’re interested in our film and wanna know where the film is going to be screening [and] have the latest updates on what’s happening with us and in terms of eventual DVD and Blu-ray releases.

SFB: And I have to ask one last question: Does Han shoot first?

Philippe: [Laughs] If you ask me the question: Of course. That’s a no-brainer. But, yeah, that’s an interesting little debate that we obviously had to explore in the film, and I think there’s about five minutes in the film dedicated specifically to the “Han shot first” question, so people will have to make up their own minds.

SFB: Alright, sounds great. Alexandre, thank you very much.

Philippe: Thank you so much!